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Categories Discussion Main - Rune Quest

RE: martial arts


Bjorn Are Stolen


16.02.2003 16:57


It's fun to discuss!!! (-hope you're not getting tired of me).

> Your proposal works fine as long as MA skill is low, in
> the 30% range, but it breaks down terribly once skill
> reaches higher levels. I understand that it will tend NOT
> to reach those levels, since you're allowing the skill to
> advance only on a fumble, but I'm still not very
> comfortable with a rule that only works well for a limited
> range. I tend to think rules should be built to apply as
> broadly as possible, or to have appropriate limits built
> into them which will prevent them from being misused
> outside of that range.

I think I understand your wiev, but I think the skill work in all ranges (see my exsample on true dragons, diamond dwarves, etc. in a previous mail somewhere here.)

> > > Martial arts, understood as Peter advocates, is
> > primarily
> > > concerned with efficient use of the body itself as a
> > > weapon, rather than the means with which one interacts
> > with
> > > one's weapon. A grapple, fist attack or kick should be
> > > enhanced in effectiveness if the attacker has the
> proper
> > > frame of mind concerning the body as a weapon.
> >
> > So you don't need enhancement in effectiveness in frame
> of
> > mind when conserning the body + an impliment as a
> weapon,
> > then.
> Exactly. We naturally think of tools differently from the
> way we think of our hands; we relate to them differently,
> and apply them differently. We're used to taking advantage
> of tools in certain ways, while we instinctively shy away
> from using our bodies in the same ways. A sword may be a
> treasured heirloom, but rarely does it cause us physical
> pain to parry with it. Martial Arts skill represents the
> personal discipline to use the body as a tool without being
> inhibited by the instinctive fear of getting hurt, as well
> as the skill to use it effectively while minimizing the
> risks.

Well, I think all weaponsuse that are not a part of your body still strives to become as familiar as your body. My swordteacher says (I think he's got it from somewhere) that the weapon should become an extention of yourself. I don't mean that you actually achieve this (you don't have nervelains extending into swords), but I think it illustrates the consept of fighting. The body is always the model for what you want to do with an impliment.

> >
> > > Rememberalso that you need a successful Fist or Kick
> > > Attack roll for the MA skill to take effect; the chance of >> > hitting is unaffected by MA skill.

> > -And remember that I still want it this way, just letting
> > it apply to weapons use as well +the bonus of the
> > possebility to use the MA as a backup -general fighting
> > skill that can be resorted to if you need to pick up a
> > chairleg, cup, etc. to fight with; just see how good
> > chacky chan's characters is at improvising with his
> > surroundings when fighting foes. Is he in those situations > > usin' Martial arts, or the skills "Refridgerator",
> > "Cementmixer" etc?
> I would agree with you, if we were focussing on the
> knowledge of the body as a means to enhance combat
> effectiveness, rather than a generalized higher to-hit
> chance. Someone with a high MA skill might well be more
> effective with a quarterstaff or improvised weapon, not
> because they'd be more accurate in hitting with it but
> their hitting with it could be directed to more vulnerable
> areas. In effect, this would raise the likely rolled
> damage, rather than the overall chance to hit.

Well in my oppinion what you state here (applying much damage)-falls under the actual combat skill, whereas MA covers those things that is called "KI" in eastern martial arts (balance, coordination, directing the energy where it's needed (in a punch f. eks.). In our sword lessons, for instance, the Longsword skill covers learning the starting and endingpositions, and lines of thrust and cutting, and the cuttingtecniqe itself (it's incredibly hard to achieve a clean cut, that's why the 1d8+1 damage on a sword is so realistic; A clean head hit could easily hit with a bit off angle resulting in the blade bouncing of the scull leaving just a bruce.)

The MA skill covers IMO to do this stuff right. The art of pushing the opponent's elbow hard but not too hard when conducting an "elbow push" in close combat, or feeling wether you should go weak or stront when the swords cross. It takes 1 minute to get the consept of my last exsample (called Fhlen in German) -But it would take several hundred hours to actually master it. When finally mastering this, it would work no matter what you stick in your hands, even when using just the hands. When aikido masters frees themselves from grappeling foes they apply the exsact same consept as german "Landsknechts" did when crossing swords, or what Japanese budo dudes did when dueling with Katanas.

> Overall, while I like your idea in terms of the rationale
> behind it and the link between martial arts and general
> combat effectiveness, I still think I prefer to achieve the
> effect through Attack and Parry modifiers, leaving Martial
> Arts skill as it is (with the minor change I suggested
> elsewhere, enhancing effective STR for grappling and the
> like).

The problem is how you define this into rules. I'd be very much for disabling the MA skill because of -as you say -that the weapon skill is the martial art of that weapon. To follow this road of logic would make disabeling the MA skill the only logical step as the fist and leg allso is a weapon. If we shal retain the MA skill we need to put some logic into it, and I find (naturally) my arguments to fit my way of gaming. A fully workable alternative would be to adopt your solution to the problem, but I'd then remove the MA skill.

Message threads

Topic: Author:
Message  martial arts
Bjorn Are Stolen 06.02.2003 19:52  
Message    RE: martial arts
Tom Cantine 08.02.2003 04:36  
Message      RE: martial arts
Bjorn Are Stolen 08.02.2003 17:00  
Message        RE: martial arts
Peter Beirne 12.02.2003 20:33  
Message          RE: martial arts
Bjorn Are Stolen 12.02.2003 21:41  
Message            RE: martial arts
Peter Beirne 13.02.2003 18:20  
Message              RE: martial arts
Bjorn Are Stolen 13.02.2003 20:10  
Message                RE: martial arts
Tom Cantine 14.02.2003 01:48  
Message                  RE: martial arts
Bjorn Are Stolen 14.02.2003 09:21  
Message                    RE: martial arts
Tom Cantine 16.02.2003 01:19  
Message                      RE: martial arts
Bjorn Are Stolen 16.02.2003 16:57  

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